The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

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The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 13th, 2017, 14:47

This week I noticed a cul-de-sac nearby has just had all its LPS lighting replaced with LED lighting.

And another street that has old concrete lampposts with LPS lighting installed, there are new metal lampposts with LEDs installed next to them, ready for when the concrete lampposts have been removed.

@princechromey


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 13th, 2017, 18:22

pinkteddyx64 wrote:This week I noticed a cul-de-sac nearby has just had all its LPS lighting replaced with LED lighting.

And another street that has old concrete lampposts with LPS lighting installed, there are new metal lampposts with LEDs installed next to them, ready for when the concrete lampposts have been removed.

@princechromey

Good, at long last the LPS lamps are going! LPS is not very good; alright it doesn't use a lot of energy, but when the color given off is very dull and poor, you can't see a lot anyway.
LED is a good replacement as it gives off much better light yet uses low energy as well.

Can you try and speak to the people who are replacing the lamps, ready for when the LPS lamps come down, so that you can salvage them (instead of them going out)? The best thing to do with a LPS is take out the guts (including ballast etc), and replace it with an E27 (or E40, depending on the size of the socket) COB LED or long CFL.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 13th, 2017, 18:32

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:This week I noticed a cul-de-sac nearby has just had all its LPS lighting replaced with LED lighting.

And another street that has old concrete lampposts with LPS lighting installed, there are new metal lampposts with LEDs installed next to them, ready for when the concrete lampposts have been removed.

@princechromey

Good, at long last the LPS lamps are going! LPS is not very good; alright it doesn't use a lot of energy, but when the color given off is very dull and poor, you can't see a lot anyway.
LED is a good replacement as it gives off much better light yet uses low energy as well.

Can you try and speak to the people who are replacing the lamps, ready for when the LPS lamps come down, so that you can salvage them (instead of them going out)? The best thing to do with a LPS is take out the guts (including ballast etc), and replace it with an E27 (or E40, depending on the size of the socket) COB LED or long CFL.

I've tried already but they can't due to health and safety. :# :unimpressed:


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 13th, 2017, 21:24

pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:This week I noticed a cul-de-sac nearby has just had all its LPS lighting replaced with LED lighting.

And another street that has old concrete lampposts with LPS lighting installed, there are new metal lampposts with LEDs installed next to them, ready for when the concrete lampposts have been removed.

@princechromey

Good, at long last the LPS lamps are going! LPS is not very good; alright it doesn't use a lot of energy, but when the color given off is very dull and poor, you can't see a lot anyway.
LED is a good replacement as it gives off much better light yet uses low energy as well.

Can you try and speak to the people who are replacing the lamps, ready for when the LPS lamps come down, so that you can salvage them (instead of them going out)? The best thing to do with a LPS is take out the guts (including ballast etc), and replace it with an E27 (or E40, depending on the size of the socket) COB LED or long CFL.

I've tried already but they can't due to health and safety. :# :unimpressed:


Really? What a lame excuse - you should go and ask them again, as there's nothing "health and safety" about claiming an old lamp that worked before and was going to go in the bin.

If they REALLY wanted to know what "Health & Safety" is, you should just climb onto the lights, unscrew the old fittings yourself, and just leave bare live wires hanging out the lamp! Now THAT'S a "Health & Safety" issue - reclaiming an old LPS lamp isn't.

If you ever manage to get any old lamp fittings that you don't need (particularly streetlights) just let me know :yep:


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 13th, 2017, 22:48

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:This week I noticed a cul-de-sac nearby has just had all its LPS lighting replaced with LED lighting.

And another street that has old concrete lampposts with LPS lighting installed, there are new metal lampposts with LEDs installed next to them, ready for when the concrete lampposts have been removed.

@princechromey

Good, at long last the LPS lamps are going! LPS is not very good; alright it doesn't use a lot of energy, but when the color given off is very dull and poor, you can't see a lot anyway.
LED is a good replacement as it gives off much better light yet uses low energy as well.

Can you try and speak to the people who are replacing the lamps, ready for when the LPS lamps come down, so that you can salvage them (instead of them going out)? The best thing to do with a LPS is take out the guts (including ballast etc), and replace it with an E27 (or E40, depending on the size of the socket) COB LED or long CFL.

I've tried already but they can't due to health and safety. :# :unimpressed:


Really? What a lame excuse - you should go and ask them again, as there's nothing "health and safety" about claiming an old lamp that worked before and was going to go in the bin.

If they REALLY wanted to know what "Health & Safety" is, you should just climb onto the lights, unscrew the old fittings yourself, and just leave bare live wires hanging out the lamp! Now THAT'S a "Health & Safety" issue - reclaiming an old LPS lamp isn't.

If you ever manage to get any old lamp fittings that you don't need (particularly streetlights) just let me know :yep:

The said it would be a liability to them if the light malfunctions and causes a fire or injury.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 13th, 2017, 23:45

pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:This week I noticed a cul-de-sac nearby has just had all its LPS lighting replaced with LED lighting.

And another street that has old concrete lampposts with LPS lighting installed, there are new metal lampposts with LEDs installed next to them, ready for when the concrete lampposts have been removed.

@princechromey

Good, at long last the LPS lamps are going! LPS is not very good; alright it doesn't use a lot of energy, but when the color given off is very dull and poor, you can't see a lot anyway.
LED is a good replacement as it gives off much better light yet uses low energy as well.

Can you try and speak to the people who are replacing the lamps, ready for when the LPS lamps come down, so that you can salvage them (instead of them going out)? The best thing to do with a LPS is take out the guts (including ballast etc), and replace it with an E27 (or E40, depending on the size of the socket) COB LED or long CFL.

I've tried already but they can't due to health and safety. :# :unimpressed:


Really? What a lame excuse - you should go and ask them again, as there's nothing "health and safety" about claiming an old lamp that worked before and was going to go in the bin.

If they REALLY wanted to know what "Health & Safety" is, you should just climb onto the lights, unscrew the old fittings yourself, and just leave bare live wires hanging out the lamp! Now THAT'S a "Health & Safety" issue - reclaiming an old LPS lamp isn't.

If you ever manage to get any old lamp fittings that you don't need (particularly streetlights) just let me know :yep:

The said it would be a liability to them if the light malfunctions and causes a fire or injury.


That's still nonsense though, when have you ever seen a light fitting catch fire? Especially since the light has been in good service for a number of years, it's extremely unlikely that a streetlight will catch fire.
The only sort of electronics that will catch fire are the cheap crap you get from China, or the Samsung Galaxy Note 7.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 14th, 2017, 15:03

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:This week I noticed a cul-de-sac nearby has just had all its LPS lighting replaced with LED lighting.

And another street that has old concrete lampposts with LPS lighting installed, there are new metal lampposts with LEDs installed next to them, ready for when the concrete lampposts have been removed.

@princechromey

Good, at long last the LPS lamps are going! LPS is not very good; alright it doesn't use a lot of energy, but when the color given off is very dull and poor, you can't see a lot anyway.
LED is a good replacement as it gives off much better light yet uses low energy as well.

Can you try and speak to the people who are replacing the lamps, ready for when the LPS lamps come down, so that you can salvage them (instead of them going out)? The best thing to do with a LPS is take out the guts (including ballast etc), and replace it with an E27 (or E40, depending on the size of the socket) COB LED or long CFL.

I've tried already but they can't due to health and safety. :# :unimpressed:


Really? What a lame excuse - you should go and ask them again, as there's nothing "health and safety" about claiming an old lamp that worked before and was going to go in the bin.

If they REALLY wanted to know what "Health & Safety" is, you should just climb onto the lights, unscrew the old fittings yourself, and just leave bare live wires hanging out the lamp! Now THAT'S a "Health & Safety" issue - reclaiming an old LPS lamp isn't.

If you ever manage to get any old lamp fittings that you don't need (particularly streetlights) just let me know :yep:

The said it would be a liability to them if the light malfunctions and causes a fire or injury.


That's still nonsense though, when have you ever seen a light fitting catch fire? Especially since the light has been in good service for a number of years, it's extremely unlikely that a streetlight will catch fire.
The only sort of electronics that will catch fire are the cheap crap you get from China, or the Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

And the old street lighting is very likely made in the UK.

By the way, is Zak OK? It's just he seems to have stopped altogether posting in CTAM for some odd reason. :(


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 14th, 2017, 18:06

@princechromey And another one bites the dust. I saw a concrete lamppost/LPS light combo somewhere whilst I was on the bus, and next to it was a new metal lampposts with an LED light on it.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 15th, 2017, 18:42

pinkteddyx64 wrote:@princechromey And another one bites the dust. I saw a concrete lamppost/LPS light combo somewhere whilst I was on the bus, and next to it was a new metal lampposts with an LED light on it.

Good stuff, seems like LEDs will soon be the predominant source of lighting. Which is good as LED offers a much better light source than anything else.

I also looked on Bedford Borough Council's plans for upgrading their lights; they will usually be LED, induction or PL.

They will not use: SOX, CDM-T, CPO, MBFU.
Whereby:
SOX = low pressure sodium
CDM-T/CPO = ceramic metal halide
MBFU = mercury vapor.

Thank goodness for that!


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 15th, 2017, 22:21

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:@princechromey And another one bites the dust. I saw a concrete lamppost/LPS light combo somewhere whilst I was on the bus, and next to it was a new metal lampposts with an LED light on it.

Good stuff, seems like LEDs will soon be the predominant source of lighting. Which is good as LED offers a much better light source than anything else.

I also looked on Bedford Borough Council's plans for upgrading their lights; they will usually be LED, induction or PL.

They will not use: SOX, CDM-T, CPO, MBFU.
Whereby:
SOX = low pressure sodium
CDM-T/CPO = ceramic metal halide
MBFU = mercury vapor.

Thank goodness for that!

North Lincolnshire Council have told me they will only ever use LEDs for all new and replacement street lighting as of 2013.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 15th, 2017, 23:29

pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:@princechromey And another one bites the dust. I saw a concrete lamppost/LPS light combo somewhere whilst I was on the bus, and next to it was a new metal lampposts with an LED light on it.

Good stuff, seems like LEDs will soon be the predominant source of lighting. Which is good as LED offers a much better light source than anything else.

I also looked on Bedford Borough Council's plans for upgrading their lights; they will usually be LED, induction or PL.

They will not use: SOX, CDM-T, CPO, MBFU.
Whereby:
SOX = low pressure sodium
CDM-T/CPO = ceramic metal halide
MBFU = mercury vapor.

Thank goodness for that!

North Lincolnshire Council have told me they will only ever use LEDs for all new and replacement street lighting as of 2013.


That's good, as LEDs are very low energy yet have a very good CRI, have long lifespan and don't need as much maintenance as LPS, HPS or MH!

Don't know why Northants County Council are going along the metal halide route, they will regret it in a few years with the capacitor plague and the "lamp now coming on and off" problem!


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 15th, 2017, 23:31

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:@princechromey And another one bites the dust. I saw a concrete lamppost/LPS light combo somewhere whilst I was on the bus, and next to it was a new metal lampposts with an LED light on it.

Good stuff, seems like LEDs will soon be the predominant source of lighting. Which is good as LED offers a much better light source than anything else.

I also looked on Bedford Borough Council's plans for upgrading their lights; they will usually be LED, induction or PL.

They will not use: SOX, CDM-T, CPO, MBFU.
Whereby:
SOX = low pressure sodium
CDM-T/CPO = ceramic metal halide
MBFU = mercury vapor.

Thank goodness for that!

North Lincolnshire Council have told me they will only ever use LEDs for all new and replacement street lighting as of 2013.


That's good, as LEDs are very low energy yet have a very good CRI, have long lifespan and don't need as much maintenance as LPS, HPS or MH!

Don't know why Northants County Council are going along the metal halide route, they will regret it in a few years with the capacitor plague and the "lamp now coming on and off" problem!

That LPS light I mentioned earlier that's on a concrete lamppost, want me to steal it for you? ;)


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 15th, 2017, 23:36

Btw, @pinkteddyx64, take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_ren ... cal_values

Color rendering values of various bulbs. Note the HPS bulb has a CRI of only 24, and the LPS bulb has a CRI of -44! (This is due to the light being that weird orange color, which does not light things up very well.)


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 15th, 2017, 23:38

princechromey wrote:Btw, @pinkteddyx64, take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_ren ... cal_values

Color rendering values of various bulbs. Note the HPS bulb has a CRI of only 24, and the LPS bulb has a CRI of -44! (This is due to the light being that weird orange color, which does not light things up very well.)

Interesting.

I've just had to report on one road two dead LPS lights and one that's doing that weird dull pinkish red thing.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 16th, 2017, 18:09

pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:Btw, @pinkteddyx64, take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_ren ... cal_values

Color rendering values of various bulbs. Note the HPS bulb has a CRI of only 24, and the LPS bulb has a CRI of -44! (This is due to the light being that weird orange color, which does not light things up very well.)

Interesting.

I've just had to report on one road two dead LPS lights and one that's doing that weird dull pinkish red thing.

Apparently, from what I've read up, the weird pink-red thing is a lamp that is stuck in warm-up constantly and unable to warm to its full light output.
This is an issue that can happen at the EOL of LPS lamps, and basically means that the lamp needs replacing.

I wouldn't replace the LPS lamp though, I'd replace the whole head with an LED.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 16th, 2017, 18:27

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:Btw, @pinkteddyx64, take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_ren ... cal_values

Color rendering values of various bulbs. Note the HPS bulb has a CRI of only 24, and the LPS bulb has a CRI of -44! (This is due to the light being that weird orange color, which does not light things up very well.)

Interesting.

I've just had to report on one road two dead LPS lights and one that's doing that weird dull pinkish red thing.

Apparently, from what I've read up, the weird pink-red thing is a lamp that is stuck in warm-up constantly and unable to warm to its full light output.
This is an issue that can happen at the EOL of LPS lamps, and basically means that the lamp needs replacing.

I wouldn't replace the LPS lamp though, I'd replace the whole head with an LED.

I thought you said it's a capacitor issue when the pink red thing happens?

Would you like it if I gave some Google Maps links to some of the areas with the bad lights?


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 16th, 2017, 18:42

pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:Btw, @pinkteddyx64, take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_ren ... cal_values

Color rendering values of various bulbs. Note the HPS bulb has a CRI of only 24, and the LPS bulb has a CRI of -44! (This is due to the light being that weird orange color, which does not light things up very well.)

Interesting.

I've just had to report on one road two dead LPS lights and one that's doing that weird dull pinkish red thing.

Apparently, from what I've read up, the weird pink-red thing is a lamp that is stuck in warm-up constantly and unable to warm to its full light output.
This is an issue that can happen at the EOL of LPS lamps, and basically means that the lamp needs replacing.

I wouldn't replace the LPS lamp though, I'd replace the whole head with an LED.

I thought you said it's a capacitor issue when the pink red thing happens?

Would you like it if I gave some Google Maps links to some of the areas with the bad lights?


According to Wikipedia,

LPS lamp failure does not result in cycling; rather, the lamp will simply not strike or will maintain the dull red glow of the start-up phase. In another failure mode, a tiny puncture of the arc tube leaks some of the sodium vapor into the outer vacuum bulb. The sodium condenses and creates a mirror on the outer glass, partially obscuring the arc tube. The lamp often continues operating normally, but much of the light generated is obscured by the sodium coating, providing no illumination.


I don't think that LPS lamps need/have capacitors, I know that MH do though.

I don't know your area though... have you reported them to the council either directly or via fixmystreet.com?


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 16th, 2017, 18:46

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
princechromey wrote:Btw, @pinkteddyx64, take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_ren ... cal_values

Color rendering values of various bulbs. Note the HPS bulb has a CRI of only 24, and the LPS bulb has a CRI of -44! (This is due to the light being that weird orange color, which does not light things up very well.)

Interesting.

I've just had to report on one road two dead LPS lights and one that's doing that weird dull pinkish red thing.

Apparently, from what I've read up, the weird pink-red thing is a lamp that is stuck in warm-up constantly and unable to warm to its full light output.
This is an issue that can happen at the EOL of LPS lamps, and basically means that the lamp needs replacing.

I wouldn't replace the LPS lamp though, I'd replace the whole head with an LED.

I thought you said it's a capacitor issue when the pink red thing happens?

Would you like it if I gave some Google Maps links to some of the areas with the bad lights?


According to Wikipedia,

LPS lamp failure does not result in cycling; rather, the lamp will simply not strike or will maintain the dull red glow of the start-up phase. In another failure mode, a tiny puncture of the arc tube leaks some of the sodium vapor into the outer vacuum bulb. The sodium condenses and creates a mirror on the outer glass, partially obscuring the arc tube. The lamp often continues operating normally, but much of the light generated is obscured by the sodium coating, providing no illumination.


I don't think that LPS lamps need/have capacitors, I know that MH do though.

I don't know your area though... have you reported them to the council either directly or via fixmystreet.com?

Directly to the council.

Things in general are starting to look promising though as I've spotted yet another street that's had a concrete lamppost and LPS lamp removed and replaced with an LED light and new lamppost.

I'm slowly damaging a lamppost across the road from my home so that it'll get replaced with a new one and LED light by peeing at the bottom of the lamppost which I've read can corrode it if I do that.

The current light is an HPS.


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 17th, 2017, 23:28

@princechromey
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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby spotify95 » Apr 18th, 2017, 11:35

pinkteddyx64 wrote: @princechromey

Nice! We have progress - that LED should be much better than that old nasty SOX lamp next to it!

Do you think you'll be able to either (a) get the top off it, or (b) ask the people who remove it, to get the top off it? Because otherwise, those SOX lamps will get binned, and it'd be better to either use them in a personal project, or sell them on eBay :D
Though LPS is better off either as a very long fluoro tube light, or as an LED COB light :yep:


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Re: The demise of Scunthorpe's LPS lighting

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Apr 18th, 2017, 14:42

princechromey wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote: @princechromey

Nice! We have progress - that LED should be much better than that old nasty SOX lamp next to it!

Do you think you'll be able to either (a) get the top off it, or (b) ask the people who remove it, to get the top off it? Because otherwise, those SOX lamps will get binned, and it'd be better to either use them in a personal project, or sell them on eBay :D
Though LPS is better off either as a very long fluoro tube light, or as an LED COB light :yep:

I don't think so. :(


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Bye bye LPS lighting!

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Jul 2nd, 2017, 01:19



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Re: Bye bye LPS lighting!

Postby Zak » Jul 2nd, 2017, 10:55

pinkteddyx64 wrote:http://www.northlincs.gov.uk/your-council/about-your-council/news/latest-news/council-seeks-supplier-for-6m-contract-to-improve-street-lights/

@Zak @princechromey


On the back road where i live there's the old sodium lights which give a horrible yellowy light which makes peoples faces appear jaundiced :(


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spotify95
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Re: Bye bye LPS lighting!

Postby spotify95 » Jul 2nd, 2017, 11:47

Zak wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:http://www.northlincs.gov.uk/your-council/about-your-council/news/latest-news/council-seeks-supplier-for-6m-contract-to-improve-street-lights/

@Zak @princechromey


On the back road where i live there's the old sodium lights which give a horrible yellowy light which makes peoples faces appear jaundiced :(


That will be old nasty low pressure sodium type. The high pressure sodium type are a yellow-white, whereas the low pressure sodium are a dull orange-yellow.

Due to the poor color rendering index of LPS (it's actually negative!), I would get every LPS lamp replaced with something else as a matter of urgency. HPS aren't that much better, but at least they give off a good yellow-white light that is adequate for seeing at night (though LED would be preferable, due to its high CRI, white light output, low energy consumption and long lifespan).

It is good that LEDs exist, LEDs give off very good (and bright) light levels whilst also having similar energy efficiency levels to LPS. (LPS is one of the most efficient light sources, in terms of power consumption, even if the light produced is horrible and ghastly.)


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Re: Bye bye LPS lighting!

Postby spotify95 » Jul 2nd, 2017, 11:52

pinkteddyx64 wrote:http://www.northlincs.gov.uk/your-council/about-your-council/news/latest-news/council-seeks-supplier-for-6m-contract-to-improve-street-lights/

@Zak @princechromey


That is definitely good, and I applaud North Lincs Council for doing this. In Northamptonshire, they have switched from LPS (and HPS) to Metal Halide and Fluorescent, which use the same (or more) energy as LEDs yet give off lower levels of light - and the new lights have been spaced far too far apart, thus lowering light output even more.
Other councils, such as Cambridgeshire, have gone for the same fluoros and MHs but much closer together (same or closer distance than the old LPS/HPS) which results in a much better light output, though at a higher energy consumption.
Kudos to everyone that is using LED for their lights, as they are the future; they give off good amounts of light with a high CRI, but with low maintenance and low energy requirements.



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