Poor UK data coverage

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Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 09:40

@spotify95 @pinkteddyx64

I'm on the train to Doncaster right now, before catching another train to Hull. I'm approximately halfway between Derby and Sheffield as I type these words. I noticed that for 10 minutes between Derby and Sheffield there was no data coverage at all. Not even 3G or 2G.

Assuming that the train is travelling at 60 miles per hour (a reasonable estimate) that's 10 miles of no data coverage! What if you had to walk? That would be (average walking speed is about 3-4 miles per hour) between 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 hours without data, so without any maps or location tracking, since they require internet connection.

As I'm writing this now, we have entered another zone between Derby and Sheffield without any data coverage. The no data started at 09:39 so let's see how long (and far) it lasts...

It lasted a minute, or about 1 mile.


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 09:59

It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 10:03

It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 10:17

And now the train has stopped in between stations for some reason :(


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 10:36

@pinkteddyx64 you can come to my student house anytime between 3 and 9 today if you want :)


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby spotify95 » Sep 15th, 2017, 10:50

Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 10:57

spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


It was cross country. And I could use the wifi but you have to pay per minute :(


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Sep 15th, 2017, 13:20

Kyx wrote:@pinkteddyx64 you can come to my student house anytime between 3 and 9 today if you want :)

I can't, I've got a long shift at work that starts at two and finishes at ten. I want to visit you, just I can't today. :( Please could we arrange another time and day?


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 13:23

pinkteddyx64 wrote:
Kyx wrote:@pinkteddyx64 you can come to my student house anytime between 3 and 9 today if you want :)

I can't, I've got a long shift at work that starts at two and finishes at ten. I want to visit you, just i can't today. :(


Tomorrow between 12 and 3?


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Sep 15th, 2017, 13:24

Kyx wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:
Kyx wrote:@pinkteddyx64 you can come to my student house anytime between 3 and 9 today if you want :)

I can't, I've got a long shift at work that starts at two and finishes at ten. I want to visit you, just i can't today. :(


Tomorrow between 12 and 3?

:yep:

Please could you PM me the address as a reminder?


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby spotify95 » Sep 15th, 2017, 14:30

Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


It was cross country. And I could use the wifi but you have to pay per minute :(

Depends on the type of train they used on that route. I know that, on the CrossCountry trains from Birmingham to Leicester (and the Eastern Counties), they use Turbostars (BR Class 170), which are perfectly fine. However, from what I have read up, the Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull services use either Intercity 125's (BR Class 43) or Voyagers/Super Voyagers (BR Class 220/221). From what it sounds like, you must have used a Class 220 or 221, as they, like the 222s that I end up using, have metallic windows and therefore block out any chance of receiving 3G or 4G.


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 14:31

spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


It was cross country. And I could use the wifi but you have to pay per minute :(

Depends on the type of train they used on that route. I know that, on the CrossCountry trains from Birmingham to Leicester (and the Eastern Counties), they use Turbostars (BR Class 170), which are perfectly fine. However, from what I have read up, the Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull services use either Intercity 125's (BR Class 43) or Voyagers/Super Voyagers (BR Class 220/221). From what it sounds like, you must have used a Class 220 or 221, as they, like the 222s that I end up using, have metallic windows and therefore block out any chance of receiving 3G or 4G.


But for most of the journey the 3G and 4G was fine :dunno:


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby spotify95 » Sep 15th, 2017, 14:51

Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


It was cross country. And I could use the wifi but you have to pay per minute :(

Depends on the type of train they used on that route. I know that, on the CrossCountry trains from Birmingham to Leicester (and the Eastern Counties), they use Turbostars (BR Class 170), which are perfectly fine. However, from what I have read up, the Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull services use either Intercity 125's (BR Class 43) or Voyagers/Super Voyagers (BR Class 220/221). From what it sounds like, you must have used a Class 220 or 221, as they, like the 222s that I end up using, have metallic windows and therefore block out any chance of receiving 3G or 4G.


But for most of the journey the 3G and 4G was fine :dunno:


Might just have been some well known blackspots then. My stretch of line is just about OK even on a Class 222, because all of the legacy masts are being/have been upgraded, and therefore there is some sort of 3G/4G available in all but a couple of places.
It might have been that the areas in question are well known blackspots (check the mobile network coverage checkers to confirm this), but it might also be that the signal there wasn't that great anyway, and being in a certain type of train degraded the signal down to virtually nothing.


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 14:54

spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


It was cross country. And I could use the wifi but you have to pay per minute :(

Depends on the type of train they used on that route. I know that, on the CrossCountry trains from Birmingham to Leicester (and the Eastern Counties), they use Turbostars (BR Class 170), which are perfectly fine. However, from what I have read up, the Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull services use either Intercity 125's (BR Class 43) or Voyagers/Super Voyagers (BR Class 220/221). From what it sounds like, you must have used a Class 220 or 221, as they, like the 222s that I end up using, have metallic windows and therefore block out any chance of receiving 3G or 4G.


But for most of the journey the 3G and 4G was fine :dunno:


Might just have been some well known blackspots then. My stretch of line is just about OK even on a Class 222, because all of the legacy masts are being/have been upgraded, and therefore there is some sort of 3G/4G available in all but a couple of places.
It might have been that the areas in question are well known blackspots (check the mobile network coverage checkers to confirm this), but it might also be that the signal there wasn't that great anyway, and being in a certain type of train degraded the signal down to virtually nothing.


Probably. I can't wait until we get 5G data in 2020 :D


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby spotify95 » Sep 15th, 2017, 17:53

Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


It was cross country. And I could use the wifi but you have to pay per minute :(

Depends on the type of train they used on that route. I know that, on the CrossCountry trains from Birmingham to Leicester (and the Eastern Counties), they use Turbostars (BR Class 170), which are perfectly fine. However, from what I have read up, the Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull services use either Intercity 125's (BR Class 43) or Voyagers/Super Voyagers (BR Class 220/221). From what it sounds like, you must have used a Class 220 or 221, as they, like the 222s that I end up using, have metallic windows and therefore block out any chance of receiving 3G or 4G.


But for most of the journey the 3G and 4G was fine :dunno:


Might just have been some well known blackspots then. My stretch of line is just about OK even on a Class 222, because all of the legacy masts are being/have been upgraded, and therefore there is some sort of 3G/4G available in all but a couple of places.
It might have been that the areas in question are well known blackspots (check the mobile network coverage checkers to confirm this), but it might also be that the signal there wasn't that great anyway, and being in a certain type of train degraded the signal down to virtually nothing.


Probably. I can't wait until we get 5G data in 2020 :D


Forget 5G, we need to make sure that 4G is good enough for most use, covering as much of the UK as possible :)
Since, when 5G is launched (hopefully with voice as well), it'll need to hand over to 4G when 5G isn't available.

If only 4G had launched with voice as standard, the coverage would be way better. Unfortunately it didn't, meaning that coverage has to be restricted to within 3G in order to make and receive calls... 2G is a waste of space and should be switched off ASAP.


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby Kyx » Sep 15th, 2017, 17:58

spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:
spotify95 wrote:
Kyx wrote:It's also on and off between Sheffield and Doncaster. There was no data coverage for 5 minutes, or about 2.5 miles (at around 30 miles per hour)


What sort of train is this on? Certain trains have metal film in the windows, resulting in very poor indoor coverage as the signals are reflected out.

The outdoor coverage is more than likely going to be much better. Can you use the train Wi-Fi?


It was cross country. And I could use the wifi but you have to pay per minute :(

Depends on the type of train they used on that route. I know that, on the CrossCountry trains from Birmingham to Leicester (and the Eastern Counties), they use Turbostars (BR Class 170), which are perfectly fine. However, from what I have read up, the Sheffield-Doncaster-Hull services use either Intercity 125's (BR Class 43) or Voyagers/Super Voyagers (BR Class 220/221). From what it sounds like, you must have used a Class 220 or 221, as they, like the 222s that I end up using, have metallic windows and therefore block out any chance of receiving 3G or 4G.


But for most of the journey the 3G and 4G was fine :dunno:


Might just have been some well known blackspots then. My stretch of line is just about OK even on a Class 222, because all of the legacy masts are being/have been upgraded, and therefore there is some sort of 3G/4G available in all but a couple of places.
It might have been that the areas in question are well known blackspots (check the mobile network coverage checkers to confirm this), but it might also be that the signal there wasn't that great anyway, and being in a certain type of train degraded the signal down to virtually nothing.


Probably. I can't wait until we get 5G data in 2020 :D


Forget 5G, we need to make sure that 4G is good enough for most use, covering as much of the UK as possible :)
Since, when 5G is launched (hopefully with voice as well), it'll need to hand over to 4G when 5G isn't available.

If only 4G had launched with voice as standard, the coverage would be way better. Unfortunately it didn't, meaning that coverage has to be restricted to within 3G in order to make and receive calls... 2G is a waste of space and should be switched off ASAP.


You're the expert :p


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Sep 15th, 2017, 18:02

@spotify95 But remember what was said on DS about us having to think of those poor elderly people who were retarded enough to buy 2G only phones even in 2016. :banghead: :mad:

Why does this country always have to use the elderly as an excuse to stop this country progressing?! :doh2:

If it were down to me, I'd say tough luck, all 2G to be terminated within the next 2 years.


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby spotify95 » Sep 15th, 2017, 20:17

pinkteddyx64 wrote:@Spotify95 But remember what was said on DS about us having to think of those poor elderly people who were retarded enough to buy 2G only phones even in 2016. :banghead: :mad:

Why does this country always have to use the elderly as an excuse to stop this country progressing?! :doh2:

If it were down to me, I'd say tough luck, all 2G to be terminated within the next 2 years.

Also, remember that some networks have 2G/4G only masts, with no way of making calls (on non-VoLTE devices) and no data connection on non-4G devices.

Furthermore, Vodafone are refarming the whole of their 2100MHz band from 3G to 4G, meaning that the iPhone 3G... can no longer work on Vodafone 3G.

If it was down to me, I'd make sure that both 900MHz and 2100MHz 3G was active on every site; it is mandatory that every site had some sort of 3G for calls and data, any 2G/4G (or other non-3G) site would be forced to have 3G added, or otherwise decommissioned; all 2G licenses to be null and void as of 1/1/2020 with no way of re-applying for such a license (meaning 2G switched off).

I'd also try and get Vodafone and O2 to release 5MHz of 3G900 to EE and 3 (so that their calls coverage was boosted, due to the lack of 2G) and then EE/3 then give Vodafone and O2 5MHz of 2G1800 (to boost 4G capacity).


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby pinkteddyx64 » Sep 15th, 2017, 20:24

spotify95 wrote:
pinkteddyx64 wrote:@Spotify95 But remember what was said on DS about us having to think of those poor elderly people who were retarded enough to buy 2G only phones even in 2016. :banghead: :mad:

Why does this country always have to use the elderly as an excuse to stop this country progressing?! :doh2:

If it were down to me, I'd say tough luck, all 2G to be terminated within the next 2 years.

Also, remember that some networks have 2G/4G only masts, with no way of making calls (on non-VoLTE devices) and no data connection on non-4G devices.

Furthermore, Vodafone are refarming the whole of their 2100MHz band from 3G to 4G, meaning that the iPhone 3G... can no longer work on Vodafone 3G.

If it was down to me, I'd make sure that both 900MHz and 2100MHz 3G was active on every site; it is mandatory that every site had some sort of 3G for calls and data, any 2G/4G (or other non-3G) site would be forced to have 3G added, or otherwise decommissioned; all 2G licenses to be null and void as of 1/1/2020 with no way of re-applying for such a license (meaning 2G switched off).

I'd also try and get Vodafone and O2 to release 5MHz of 3G900 to EE and 3 (so that their calls coverage was boosted, due to the lack of 2G) and then EE/3 then give Vodafone and O2 5MHz of 2G1800 (to boost 4G capacity).

And if the elderly start whinging that their precious 2G only phones are going to be useless, offer a scheme a bit like with digital switchover where they can get free or reduced cost 3G phones.


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Re: Poor UK data coverage

Postby spotify95 » Sep 16th, 2017, 21:53

Update regarding coverage along the A148, towards Holt, Sheringham and Cromer (including in certain locations):
https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussio ... t_87688287

Note the "Hillington Disaster" - something that has been mentioned before, which is something that I have already reported to EE on their forum:
https://community.ee.co.uk/t5/4G-and-mo ... 733#M61234

The latter is inexcusable for a network which will soon be carrying the Emergency Services Network (ESN). Imaging the police not being able to receive any updates on anything because the host network has still not fixed a severe problem regarding mast location! (Note, the Tetra network, what the emergency services currently use, will be discontinued in favor of EE's mobile network.)

EDIT: look at the EE/3 mast HERE (directly from Google Maps) and you can clearly see where the problem lies.



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